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ponyoplant's review against another edition
that's that
alcibiades is so full of shit and bravado it's impressive
(j'ai juste lu le huitième livre les besties, en français)
alcibiades is so full of shit and bravado it's impressive
(j'ai juste lu le huitième livre les besties, en français)
nzagalo's review against another edition
"História da Guerra do Peloponeso" foi escrito no século V a.C por Tucídides, sendo por isso mesmo um registo histórico de incomensurável valor, mas é também um marco da História enquanto disciplina académica. Neste último sentido, fez-me compreender que apesar de na última década me ter dedicado a ler mais e mais História, na verdade continuo longe da mesma, em termos académicos. Interessam-me as histórias sobre a História, não me interessam tanto os relatos descritivos, mesmo que mais fidedignos ou verdadeiros. Não me move chegar “à verdade”, move-me mais a ideia de que aquilo que se conta é baseado numa realidade. Desde logo, porque mesmo num livro tão descritivo, tão emocionalmente neutro e objetivo, é possível denotar viés a ponto de hoje alguns historiadores o classificarem mesmo como apenas literatura. Claro que falo de um ponto de vista externo, não leio estas obras para documentar a minha investigação, se assim fosse falaria de modo distinto. Como leio apenas pelo prazer de ler, esse é maior quando a História usa o melhor da arte narrativa para chegar a nós, mesmo colocando em causa parte da sua factualidade que aceito bem quando é feito por via da especulação, mas não tanto quando pela mera invenção.
continua no VI: https://virtual-illusion.blogspot.com/2023/04/guerra-do-peloponeso-431-ac-404-ac.html
continua no VI: https://virtual-illusion.blogspot.com/2023/04/guerra-do-peloponeso-431-ac-404-ac.html
marc129's review against another edition
Tremendously important book, from a historical point of view. But to be honest: Thucydides brings a boring story: he just gives a sequence of facts; no dramatic depth, no psychological dimension in the speeches, emphasis on the military events.
I also was a bit disappointed by his so-called objectivity: Book 1 is slightly anti-Athenian (imperialism), book 2 light pro-Athenian (Pericles). In comparison with Herodotus for me Thucydides is a little step back, because at least Herodotus gave different opinions, Thucydides leaves no room for uncertainty, he decides on the cause-effect relationship.
I also was a bit disappointed by his so-called objectivity: Book 1 is slightly anti-Athenian (imperialism), book 2 light pro-Athenian (Pericles). In comparison with Herodotus for me Thucydides is a little step back, because at least Herodotus gave different opinions, Thucydides leaves no room for uncertainty, he decides on the cause-effect relationship.
mikanavia's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
informative
inspiring
tense
slow-paced
4.25
bcjoneschrist's review against another edition
adventurous
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
4.25
Occasionally, reading old Thucydides' writings--with his slow, plodding, matter-of-fact pace--starts to feel as arduous as the decades-long turmoil in most of the Hellenic world all those thousands of years ago, but once you become more familiar with the people, places, and names of things that existed way back when. A fascinating look at how humans have been fighting with, murdering, making treaties with, and once again murdering each other for thousands of years. A comforting thought.
msgtdameron's review against another edition
challenging
informative
slow-paced
5.0
I started this tome because I wanted to know what Athens did with the Tyrants that were forced on Athens at the end of the Peloponnesian War. Unfortunately Thucydides died before he finished his epic work. Xenophon, who tried to complete the history, did not write as well and tells nothing of what Athens di with there tyrants. But the work does go into detail as to what happened to those colonies that revolted and had Tyrants and or Oligarchs installed as the colonial government. When Athens reclaimed and/or freed her colonies from Spartan installed Oligarchs the standard punishment was execute 1000 of the citizens that were the direct muscle of the oligarchs. Think of these people as Hitlers Brown Shirts. Then the Oligarchs themselves and their families were banished from Athenian territory. Banishment is really slow death. When Sparta Banished the Athenian's from Chiros the Athenians asked to take a cloak pert person. Sparta granted this and shocked most of the ancient world by granting such a boon to the conquered peoples. Banishment, 2500 years ago, was mostly just what you had on your back irregardless of the time of year, the weather, wounds, sickness, etc, and it included all your family, none of your slaves. Also heralds were sent along all the roads out to inform the next towns, villages, and Hamlets that you might come by and they were not to assist you in any way. Slow death by any other name.
This leads to what do we, Americans, do with the power hungry Oligarchs that back the MAGATS of Trumpism? I suggest that we will have to, after the Counter Revolution wins back the country for the Constitution of the Founding Fathers. We will have to look at execution of the leadership as banishment today is not going to lead to the Oligarchs death, just to their comfortable life's over seas.
Executions will be a must. Not just of the leadership but also of the supporters of the Oligarchs and that question will depend on how many the Administration feels it will have to execute to get the point across that the Constitution is invulnerable to the MAGATS. I would say that number is around 250K to 300K and includes all 382 families that control 90 percent of our economy. And the politicians they have bought. Also Athenian/Spartan banishment confiscated ALL the banished property. This should also be the standard for those traitors who want to destroy our Constitution and have absolute power. These are thoughts based on critical reading of both Thucydides and histories of the French Revolution and how these two ancient and old Republics and Democracies reacted to the threats to their way of life, and Trumpism is a definite threat to the Constitution of our country.
This leads to what do we, Americans, do with the power hungry Oligarchs that back the MAGATS of Trumpism? I suggest that we will have to, after the Counter Revolution wins back the country for the Constitution of the Founding Fathers. We will have to look at execution of the leadership as banishment today is not going to lead to the Oligarchs death, just to their comfortable life's over seas.
Executions will be a must. Not just of the leadership but also of the supporters of the Oligarchs and that question will depend on how many the Administration feels it will have to execute to get the point across that the Constitution is invulnerable to the MAGATS. I would say that number is around 250K to 300K and includes all 382 families that control 90 percent of our economy. And the politicians they have bought. Also Athenian/Spartan banishment confiscated ALL the banished property. This should also be the standard for those traitors who want to destroy our Constitution and have absolute power. These are thoughts based on critical reading of both Thucydides and histories of the French Revolution and how these two ancient and old Republics and Democracies reacted to the threats to their way of life, and Trumpism is a definite threat to the Constitution of our country.